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Today's Question Pod

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[info]usullusa asks: Did you create the back-stories for your characters before you started writing your books, or did it come to you as you went along? Do you keep charts of people's lineages and histories? How about charting plot? Also, somewhat related, I know some writers will do things like write scenes out on note cards and rearrange them, or write the story out of order and then fill in the gaps. How do you work when you're writing?

The short answer: I start with a general idea and everything comes into focus as I write. I do keep a few charts, the Aurenfaie clans, for instance, but I don't chart the plot, except for a simple time line. No note cards. I'd just lose them.

Oh, and your books contain plenty of gay characters/themes or same-sex relationships. I know one time you said that homosexuality being so socially unacceptable was partly what made you write about characters that weren't straight. Can you elaborate on that? What kind of reactions do you get from people and how have you dealt with them?

There are a lot of answers to that one. I think it goes back partly to the 1970's, when the Equal Rights Amendment for women was being so hotly debated. The more excitable of those who opposed it, in N. Maine, at least, always seemed to devolve in their argument to the curious logic that if we passed an equal rights amendment for women, then gay people would be able to get married. It never made any sense to me, but I think that's when a connection between women's rights and queer* rights became ingrained in my mind. It's all human rights. (I dug into women's issues in the Tamir books)

So when I saw the usual depictions of women and queer people in fantasy, I took umbrage and felt called upon to buck the trend. If a woman character had taken command of my brain, I would have written somewhat different books, but it was Seregil and hi jinks ensued. But I've tried to portray strong women who are still women, as well.

I was also influenced by Mary Renault's books, the first writer I ever encountered who dealt with such things. I thought she was really brave, and her characters were interesting (and sexy).

As for reader reaction, I have, since 1996, received perhaps five direct reader communications taking me to task for "destroying the fabric of the American family with my gay agenda", as the most colorful writer, a prison inmate, put it. I've always responded politely, and that's been the end of it.

I'm sure it's kept some readers away from my books, and I have received some damaging feedback on Amazon.com. All that may have hurt sales and kept me from buying that castle I've always dreamed of, but I have to write what comes to me.

[info]aeditimi asks: Without particularly bashing other fantasy authors who may or may [not] write gay characters (or out characters after the fact) because it's cool or shocking or something, how do you see the sexuality of your characters as social commentary or critique or anything?

I see how I portray gay or queer characters in Rhíminee as a statement of how I think the world should be, as well as an acknowledgment, in less open countries or minds I've created, of how it is. I try not to make reactions in any particular area monolithic. For example, while the concept of male/male love is obviously known in Aurënen, and has, in effect, legal standing, not all Aurënfaie agree with it, including Seregil's father. It's accepted in the greater society in Rhíminee, but not among the local Dalnans, and even among the accepting, it's still a topic of titillating gossip.

Do you feel any pressure from the gay community or the het community to present your charcters in a particular way? Is it ever tempting to give in to that pressure?

My agent and editor have always considered it a plus, something that sets my work apart from others, at least when it first came out. I wasn't the first, of course, but I did seem to strike a chord of some sort.

I'd be the first to admit that I am writing about these issues as an outsider, but have always gone on the theory that love is love when dealing with S&A. Other characters are not into relationships and just want sex, and that's ok, too. Even Seregil has occassionally drawn a distinction between sex and love, much to Alec's displeasure, good Dalnan that he is. One close queer male friend has made a few rumblings about the relationship not being all that realistic, but overall, the feedback I've had from the queer men who have chosen to remark on it have been very supportive, either because it's the way they wish life could be, or that they are glad to see their own experience mirrored in my work. I've had a number of men tell me that they used my books to come out, or to give people close to them have a better understanding of their orientation. So I must be doing something right for some readers. Each person experiences life their own way; I can't capture the experience of everyone with just two characters.

And of course, I have a strong following among straight women who like this sort of thing. But I've also had a positive response from unexpected sources, like some of the 70+ year old people I know. And of course, there are always those who "like my books anyway", even though they are not completely comfortable with that kind of thing.

The only real pressure, if you can call it that, I've felt comes from my editor, in regard to Shadows Return. It's her hope, and mine, that this book will reinvigorate the series and pull in lots of new fans. She's had me soft peddle the sexual issue in the first few chapters, and in things like the podcast, so we can draw them in and get them hooked on the story before springing that on them. I think her advice was "sneak it up on 'em like you did before." It's more strategy than pressure in my mind. I've never intended these to be "gay" books, and I've done my damnedest to not soap box on any issue at the expense of story. Seregil and Alec's relationship should have no more weight on the plot than that between Micum and Kari, or Tamir and Ki.

And I always keep in mind the comment I had from a very straight male reader, who was clearly confused about his ability to accept my gay heroes, and decided it must be because I didn't "shove it down his throat". Considering the context of the comment, I've always thought it both funny and telling.

In conclusion, I have always felt like I'm walking a very fine line, wanting to give queer characters their due, but not alienating the mainstream, either. Part of this is certainly a financial decision, but I also believe that it's beneficial to get my books into as many mainstream hands as possible, to capture hearts and minds, like the above mentioned man. Hey, maybe I am pushing a gay agenda, huh? Actually, I try to push a humane agenda, by what I hope are skillful means. ;-) I have always been encouraged by the fact that my fan base seems to span a very wide range of age, gender, and orientation.


*I've been given permission from members of the queer community to use the term "queer" and figure if I do so often enough, I'll get used to it.

Comments

( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]post_position wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 04:43 pm (UTC)
It's more strategy than pressure in my mind. I've never intended these to be "gay" books, and I've done my damnedest to not soap box on any issue at the expense of story. Seregil and Alec's relationship should have no more weight on the plot than that between Micum and Kari, or Tamir and Ki.

This is exactly why I was attracted to your writing. You make it part of the story, but not 'the whole' story, and I think that is very important. One's orientation is a part of their life, but not the only part, and I think that is where people tend to miss the point when it comes to the depiction of homosexuality in media.
[info]rishabree wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 04:46 pm (UTC)
And I always keep in mind the comment I had from a very straight male reader, who was clearly confused about his ability to accept my gay heroes, and decided it must be because I didn't "shove it down his throat".

Hee! I laughed out loud at that one.

Edited at 2008-03-21 04:46 pm (UTC)
[info]cathainus wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 05:15 pm (UTC)
What would your agent say if...
someone from a queer media site/magazine wanted to review SR or interview you about it?
[info]otterdance wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 05:44 pm (UTC)
Re: What would your agent say if...
She would be delighted, as would I.
[info]tierfal wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC)
Fascinating answers for fascinating questions. YAY!! :D

The "love is love" thing is exactly my perspective and approach, and I agree with the above commenter that one of the things that was so powerful about Alec and Seregil's relationship was that it wasn't pushing an agenda. It was two people who found themselves in love with each other, and then the kind of crap happened that always happens to people in that situation.

(Er, "crap" is not meant in any way to refer to the writing, and rather is being here used as a colloquialism. XD I fail.)

I just fell in love with the movie "Brokeback Mountain" the other night, and I think it's the same idea. It's not gay guys being gay guys, it's people being people. And I find that to be a beautiful thing, and in many cases a brave thing, to portray.

And I was definitely irrevocably addicted to Nightrunner long before you hit us with the zinger, so I think that strategy is extremely effective. ;)
[info]netaria wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 06:40 pm (UTC)
I am really loving getting to read all these q&a posts! :D

I also must agree that the very gen way you have portrayed their relationship, as opposed to hopping up on a soapbox makes it much more believable. As well as, from the perspective of a queer person who loves to read, a refreshing thing. So many authors seem to think that love operates drastically differently when it's between two people of the same gender, or if one or bothe of the people are bisexual. The fact that you portray love accurately, without letting the sexuality mutate it into something that isn't what I(personally) would think of as Love...just well, thanks. :)
[info]otterdance wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 08:26 pm (UTC)
Thanks! I'm glad it works for you. :-)
[info]elisel wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 08:00 pm (UTC)
It was a book with a very cool, firmly gay hero that made me reevaluate what I'd always been taught about homosexual relationships (that they were unnatural, wrong, disgusting, etc., etc...), so I am in complete support of this kind of writing! How glad I am that I made the "acquaintance" of a homosexual fictional character before I made the acquaintance of any (openly) gay people in the Real World, and wounded feelings!

And then I became a penguin keeper at the zoo, where I watched males routinely pair up in very solid relationships, and realized how wrong the "unnatural" argument is. (There were even two birds, Sigmund and Arturo*, who rolled an egg-shaped rock into their nest, determined to sit on it and hatch it! I picture them looking at each other in confusion when nothing happened: "Wait, what? I thought you were supposed to lay the egg!" I think they'd have made very good foster parents.)

*Who I realize, coincidentally, are also S&A.
[info]otterdance wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2008 08:32 pm (UTC)
You are most assuredly my first penguin keeper fan! I love those tuxedo wearing little sweeties.

These same sex relationships show up in so many animals, it really makes you think. I read one case in which two male monkeys, baboons I think, were paired for life. Baboons are very social, with lots of ritualized contact. Dominant males would greet lesser males by coming up behind them and either mounting them, or cupping their balls. This pair did both to each other, interchangeably.
[info]elisel wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 02:27 pm (UTC)
Which reminds me of another zoo story that might interest you: Our otters shared an enclosure with our macaques. (We're going to say macaques, but I might be misremembering; I was never particularly attached to the primates.) In any case, the two species happily cohabited: The otters hung out near the water, and the macaques generally climbed on the aboveground structure.

The female lost her baby one year, and was extremely - there is no other word for it - depressed. Some days, she'd just sit huddled next to the wall. The only thing that would stir her interest was the otters: She'd go down to the water's edge and watch them play for hours on end.

Perhaps otters are therapeutic to a number of primates. :)

[info]aeditimi wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 12:30 pm (UTC)
I saw that article in the NY Times, and my daughter has the book, And Tango Makes Three. Are you telling me you're *the* penguin keeper of that famous couple? Not that you wouldn't be way cool in my mind for keeping penguins anyway. As Lynn loves otters, so I love penguins...
[info]elisel wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 02:01 pm (UTC)
Huzzah for penguin fanatics!

I do remember there being an article that drew a lot of attention, a while back. But no, that wasn't me. :)

Actually, the article amused me: At the time it came out, the fact that penguins were prone to same-sex pairings (especially when traditional gender ratios were skewed) was pretty much common knowledge among the zoo community, and had been for years. The media made a huge deal out of it, but it wasn't new news. However, apparently a lot of people found it really interesting! It just goes to show that things you find commonplace may be very surprising outside of your circles, I guess. (And to think, I missed my chance at fame!)

I'm no longer a keeper, having gone on to grad school, but once you go penguin, you aren't ever quite the same, I think - so I agree with your adoration of the little ankle-biters. (I even have a penguin-themed bathroom, with an old sign from the zoo over the tub: "PENGUINS WILL RETURN WHEN POOL IS FILLED.") I miss my babies something awful sometimes, but I don't really miss smelling like fish oil ten hours a day. ^^;
[info]demonrae wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 12:40 am (UTC)
Reaction #58790098-2
I'm not sure how related this is, but these are my thoughts in response; I was pretty amused at some of the reactions you mentioned. Particularly your homosexual friend who comments that it's "not very realistic" (because intelligent heterosexual individuals finding a connection to gay characters is not really as uncommon as some might claim. ;) )

My girlfriend and I have been together for three years, or as a friend jokingly put it, "forever, in gay-world". I also found it interesting to note that that particular friend happened to be a gay male who was very much into the twenty-something single party scene. I realize that that is one way of looking at the gay community, and seeing that side of it - drugs and promiscuity - is a lot of what pushes people away. It's something I try (and usually succeed) to not take personally from the general herd.

As for myself, being a homosexual female, I find your portrayal of Seregil and Alec's relationship to include a lot of elements of the relationship that I am in. In this case, two thinking, feeling, at least marginally rational individuals with similar interests, abilities, likes and dislikes (aside from the whole 80's music vs. Jpop thing...) So if you're comfortable thinking of Alec and Seregil as ... maybe more than slightly effeminite, then I think it's pretty dang accurate.

(That's not the only reason I keep reading though.) :)
[info]romp wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 02:19 am (UTC)
Spreading the popularity of your books has been part of my gay agenda for about 10 years now. Well, not just gay but can anyone be hurt by reading more queer-friendly stories with strong women characters? I think not.

Now I'm living in Canada and spreading the word but it's harder. When a librarian names her fave books, people expect them to be IN the library, you know? So please tell your publisher to work it harder up north. Thanks.
[info]verdigriis wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 02:26 am (UTC)
Interesting comment about sneaking the homosexual relationship up on people...

When I first read the Nightrunner series, I spent the first part of it hoping Seregil and Alec would get together, but reminding myself that this was mainstream fantasy and that it wouldn't happen. And then to my delight it did!

And it didn't take over the story - it just was.
[info]nyxianthe wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 03:56 am (UTC)
I have a very dear friend that I go to college with who is trans, and I think that part of what I liked so very much about the Tamir books is that I can see parts of my friend's struggle to present as female in Tamir's difficulties when she discovers she is not male.
(Deleted comment)
[info]otterdance wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 03:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Self-esteem.
I'm really pleased, and honored!
[info]leiliaeli21 wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 12:34 pm (UTC)
Hi! I'm sure you get this kind of comments often, but anyway. I'm what you could call a "fan" of yours. I don't pretend to know you well enough to be a fan so... I rather am a fan of your writings... did that made sense?
Anyway. I just wanted to tell you that I looooooved the Night runners so far(traitors everywhere nyahahahaha!!!!) and am looking forward to more.X3 I have just finished reading Tamir. :) I was really hooked once I started reading and I just couldn't seem to put the books down until I had finished.^^'
I must admit I was a bit ... unsatisfied with the books ending. It gave me the impression it was a bit rushed. :S
I don't know. Perhaps I had been looking forward to the marriage or the crowning of Tamir a bit to much...
I have a question though...
I'm currently trying to write my own book but I don't seem to find the motivation to continue. It always seems so... bleh! How do you do to keep going? Or does it all just come alone and your fingers write by themselves?
I have the story. I have the plot and the characters. But I don't seem to be able to find the words...T.T
So... is there anything you would recommend me to do? Or is it hopeless?
Sorry to bother you with this... I'm sure you must be a very busy person, but I would really appreciate it if you could find the time to answer. *puppy eyes* And if you read this all through thank you for reading my ramblings.^^'
Sincerely
Leilia
P.S: I just know it's gotta be FULL of errors. So please overlook them. ^^' English is not my spoken language, it's French and French people are not known for their wonderful English...


[info]otterdance wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 03:36 pm (UTC)
I'm currently trying to write my own book but I don't seem to find the motivation to continue. It always seems so... bleh! How do you do to keep going? Or does it all just come alone and your fingers write by themselves?
I have the story. I have the plot and the characters. But I don't seem to be able to find the words...T.T
So... is there anything you would recommend me to do? Or is it hopeless?
Sorry to bother you with this... I'm sure you must be a very busy person, but I would really appreciate it if you could find the time to answer. *puppy eyes* And if you read this all through thank you for reading my ramblings.^^'
Sincerely
Leilia
P.S: I just know it's gotta be FULL of errors. So please overlook them. ^^' English is not my spoken language, it's French and French people are not known for their wonderful English...


Bonjour. Ma Francais c'est tres mauvais, aussi. LOL

To answer your question, I have many days when the words don't want to come. Sometimes they don't, but as a professional, I've found that I can't wait for inspirtation to overwhelm me like lightning from the sky. I "apply butt to chair, and fingers to keyboard" and tell myself that I will write at least 100 words, or work for 30 minutes. Usually that's enough to get me going.

Bon chance!
[info]leiliaeli21 wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 09:03 pm (UTC)
It's so absolutely ADORABLE!!! I love your 'Frenglish' it's just too cute for words!! <3
Thank you for replying.X3
I think I'm gonna try to force myself to write too, or I'm never going to go beyond chapter1 ^^'. If it works for you it should work for me right?... right?
And just if you are interested:
You say 'MON Francais EST tres mauvais aussi.^^
But please don't change. I think it's utterly adorable.^o^*love*
[info]leiliaeli21 wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 12:56 pm (UTC)
And because I forgot to say the most important thing of all in my ramblings above... I'm so very happy Night runner is finally being published in France. Because it's a bit difficult for me sometimes to understand what you write when it's in English.
When I read Luck in the Shadows I already knew it was going to have a Gay pairing(from book two onwards) because my friend who introduced me to your books had already read them all and told me. At first I thought it was going to be like in many 'gay' books where the plot gets drowned by the romance. And I was delighted when I found out that wasn't the case. I was so in love with your story that I just couldn't help but order the second and third book in amazon and do the effort to read them through although it was in English. The same with Tamir. I had bought the first and the second book in French but I couldn't wait till the third came out so I also read it in English.
I love your books.
[info]aeditimi wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 01:23 pm (UTC)
Seregil and Alec's relationship to me is a lot like Tamir and Ki's. They're the main characters, so you're rooting for them a bit more than for Micum and Kari, or (maybe only slightly) Beka and Nyal. It is certainly part of the drama, because you're participating in their struggle, but it never shadows (harhar) the rest of the plot.

I think it's interesting that the surprise element of their relationship ends up attracting more readers. I read LITS initially *because* I was told there were gay characters. I almost wish I hadn't known that and I could be surprised. I love that their relationship evolves so gradually and naturally from who they are and what they go through together. I think that, more than anything else, helps open people's eyes to love being love.

[info]winhall wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 02:00 pm (UTC)
Interesting... I've actually never looked at the books from the perspective of someone who's not part of the "strong following among straight women who like this sort of thing". XD To me it was the reason to pick up 'Luck in the Shadows' in the first place (though I wouldn't have enjoyed it (or Tamir for that matter) so much had that been the only reason to like the books).

Different topic: Has any edition ever included a pronounciation help for the names (and places)? I just stumbled across a japanese character sheet and found out that for over six years I'd been misspronouncing Seregil's name. But maybe that's just a problem for non-english readers...?
[info]otterdance wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 03:46 pm (UTC)
Interesting... I've actually never looked at the books from the perspective of someone who's not part of the "strong following among straight women who like this sort of thing". XD To me it was the reason to pick up 'Luck in the Shadows' in the first place (though I wouldn't have enjoyed it (or Tamir for that matter) so much had that been the only reason to like the books).

My reader base seems quite diverse, and everyone, regardless of reason, is welcome. :-)

Different topic: Has any edition ever included a pronounciation help for the names (and places)? I just stumbled across a japanese character sheet and found out that for over six years I'd been misspronouncing Seregil's name. But maybe that's just a problem for non-english readers...?

No, but I think the names get reinterpreted in some languages, especially Japanese. The correct pron. is "Ser-ah-gill", with the accent on the first syllable. Hope that helps! I also have a rather incomplete guide at my web site.
[info]winhall wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2008 04:37 pm (UTC)
No, but I think the names get reinterpreted in some languages, especially Japanese. The correct pron. is "Ser-ah-gill", with the accent on the first syllable. Hope that helps! I also have a rather incomplete guide at my web site.

Ah, that helps, thank you! :)
The Japanese are indeed quite creative when it comes to foreign names.
(Deleted comment)
[info]moonriddler_mim wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC)
it's been very interesting (as a hobby writer) to read all of these posts, but this one was among the most interesting ^__^

thank you for sharing!
( 27 comments — Leave a comment )

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